Bacopa and Gotu Kola results

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Maxin
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Bacopa and Gotu Kola results

Unread post by Maxin »

I shouldn’t post this here already because I’m jumping the gun. But I do want to share this because even if they don’t end up working out for me I would like to understand the mechanisms behind their results.

So I started both of them because a fellow person here was cured recently. And he shared what he was taking. He did not say these two were the reason why but I hadn’t tried either of them yet. And I’ve tried pretty much everything the past 17 years of suffering.

I am female. And I also don’t suffer from sexual side effects. My symptoms are severe fatigue and a complete lack of any feeling of who I used to be. Low motivation. Weight gain. Apathy. And more but those are the main ones.

So back to these two herbs. Ever since I’ve started them, I will have these 5 to 10 second blips of my old self. It’s like a weird shift. It almost trips me out because it’s like I can feel how I used to feel (and scary because I’m so far gone). It’s almost coming to a point where if I focus on it or a memory I can make it happen but it’s very subtle. It’s almost like a nostalgia feeling. Which I don’t experience ever anymore.

I haven’t noticed it doing much for my fatigue yet. But it’s definitely causing these short little shifts in my brain. This morning it happened for about 10 seconds. And after those ten seconds it’s like my brain could remember so I could focus on that feeling and very subtlety make it happen again.
Now I’m not going to get too excited but I didn’t want to share here that this is happening. I’m going to keep taking them and I’ll keep you all posted.

The reason I decided to try them was the other person that was cured described that one day things just clicked. As we know all too well, the more time that goes by the less likely we will go back to our old self. So while he doesn’t associate his healing to anything but time, I do believe that something he was taking helped. Shifts are very unlikely without treatment IMO.

Does anyone know the mechanisms behind either of these herbs? And may be just one of them that is doing something but I started them together so I can differentiate.

And a side note. I don’t have problems with libido or orgasms. But it has raised my libido. That may be because that aspect still works fine.
PEUS_DEUS
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Re: Bacopa and Gotu Kola results

Unread post by PEUS_DEUS »

I went through the same blips you describe a couple of years ago. It’s essentially what started my manic hunt for a cure when I saw what it was like to feel again.

Gotu Kola increases glutamate decarboxylase making it pro gaba. However Bacopa is a 5HT6 antagonist which increases glutamatergic transmission. It’s possible the gotu kola had caused resensitization of Glutamate channels. I doubt it but if that’s the mechanism you could probe with glycine and sarcosine as add-ons.

More likely is the fact that bacopa is a 5HT1A agonist. While not the cause of PSSD it tends to be the most or one of the most affected downstream post synaptic receptors in PSSD. Some people respond to agonists and some dont. Just depends on how de-sensitized your receptors are and how quickly they go through internalization.

All that being said I would be cautious with continually taking an agonist as it can eventually lead to further 5HT1A downregulation and leave you worse off than before. If you don’t have access to prescriptions I would suggest obtaining CBG (only CBG. not CBG+Cbd as it would defeat the purpose) to help sensitize your receptors.
Last edited by PEUS_DEUS on Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
ElaineBenes5
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Re: Bacopa and Gotu Kola results

Unread post by ElaineBenes5 »

Have you trialed CBG and what were the results?
PEUS_DEUS
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Re: Bacopa and Gotu Kola results

Unread post by PEUS_DEUS »

ElaineBenes5 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:17 pm Have you trialed CBG and what were the results?
I take 10-20mg about 3 times a week before bed. Granted I take all antagonists and almost all meds helpful for PSSD at bed otherwise they don’t do anything for me.

It’s effective. I’m a non-responder to agonists because I’ve been desensitized/had PSSD for 2 decades. My only route is upregulation and/or sensitization. If I respond to something positively I suspect most people will. For me the effects start upon waking and last most of the day. I would equate it to about 15% of my cyproheptadine rebounds in terms of potency.
Maxin
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Re: Bacopa and Gotu Kola results

Unread post by Maxin »

ElaineBenes5 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:17 pm Have you trialed CBG and what were the results?
Yes. I did trial CBG for about 3 months. It didn’t do anything for me. CBD does help me with brain fog and inflammation so I was hopeful cbg might help. It makes sense on paper for our receptors: but I didn’t notice it doing anything.
Omg laying here in bed and I just had another 10 second blip. This is crazy!!! I can literally feel my brain shift. It’s like I go into a completely different reality for those seconds. I’ve maybe had this happen total in 17 years, 3or 4 times. And today it’s been happening on and off all day!!!!

Negatives are I have been getting headaches from them. Bit small price to pay. Also don’t recommend taking at night as they caused insomnia for me.

Has anyone else tried these herbs???
Maxin
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Re: Bacopa and Gotu Kola results

Unread post by Maxin »

PEUS_DEUS wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:42 pm
ElaineBenes5 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:17 pm Have you trialed CBG and what were the results?
I take 10-20mg about 3 times a week before bed. Granted I take all antagonists and almost all meds helpful for PSSD at bed otherwise they don’t do anything for me.

It’s effective. I’m a non-responder to agonists because I’ve been desensitized/had PSSD for 2 decades. My only route is upregulation and/or sensitization. If I respond to something positively I suspect most people will. For me the effects start upon waking and last most of the day. I would equate it to about 15% of my cyproheptadine rebounds in terms of potency.
Ok so you sound like you may know more about these two herbs than me. I honestly don’t know much about them which is shocking because I know most treatments inside and out (not boasting just decades of trial and error). So you take both? What are all your symptoms? I came back on here tonight to post that I just had another 5-10 second brain shift. Weirdest thing ever. Almost freaks me out because in those few seconds I realize how much I’ve lost.
I’m nearing two decades as well. If someone has taken it here chances are I’ve been there done that. Basically about 200 grand when your factor in all the herbs drugs and doctors I’ve done and seen. So when something works enough to post here it’s a big deal for me.
What I’m hoping is that it’s recalibrating something in the brain. Just the way that other poster described that one day something clicked, led me to try these two things . Because that really spoke to me. It’s like this state is so simple and yet the most complicated predicament ever.
It’s like being in one side of a river and you need to get to the other side. You can see it l, you know it’s there and you used to live there, but you don’t have a boat, a raft, or even a log. So close but yet still so far away. That’s how this all feels for me. And that I made it to the other side for just a second.
Maxin
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Re: Bacopa and Gotu Kola results

Unread post by Maxin »

PEUS_DEUS wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:37 pm I went through the same blips you describe a couple of years ago. It’s essentially what started my manic hunt for a cure when I saw what it was like to feel again.

Gotu Kola increases glutamate decarboxylase making it pro gaba. However Bacopa is a 5HT6 antagonist which increases glutamatergic transmission. It’s possible the gotu kola had caused resensitization of Glutamate channels. I doubt it but if that’s the mechanism you could probe with glycine and sarcosine as add-ons.

More likely is the fact that bacopa is a 5HT1A agonist. While not the cause of PSSD it tends to be the most or one of the most affected downstream post synaptic receptors in PSSD. Some people respond to agonists and some dont. Just depends on how de-sensitized your receptors are and how quickly they go through internalization.

All that being said I would be cautious with continually taking an agonist as it can eventually lead to further 5HT1A downregulation and leave you worse off than before. If you don’t have access to prescriptions I would suggest obtaining CBG (only CBG. not CBG+Cbd as it would defeat the purpose) to help sensitize your receptors.
Ok so I did do a pretty long trial with cbg with no results good or bad.
Thanks for your knowledge on the receptor aspect because I know very little about these herbs.
I’m gonna keep going on it. Almost feels like a retraining of the brain. Like it gets me in the horse I just have to remember how to ride it? It feels different to me than any other receptor manipulation personally. Time will tell I guess. I don’t think I can get worse tbh. Famous last words, right?
Maxin
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Re: Bacopa and Gotu Kola results

Unread post by Maxin »

PEUS_DEUS wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:37 pm I went through the same blips you describe a couple of years ago. It’s essentially what started my manic hunt for a cure when I saw what it was like to feel again.

Gotu Kola increases glutamate decarboxylase making it pro gaba. However Bacopa is a 5HT6 antagonist which increases glutamatergic transmission. It’s possible the gotu kola had caused resensitization of Glutamate channels. I doubt it but if that’s the mechanism you could probe with glycine and sarcosine as add-ons.

More likely is the fact that bacopa is a 5HT1A agonist. While not the cause of PSSD it tends to be the most or one of the most affected downstream post synaptic receptors in PSSD. Some people respond to agonists and some dont. Just depends on how de-sensitized your receptors are and how quickly they go through internalization.

All that being said I would be cautious with continually taking an agonist as it can eventually lead to further 5HT1A downregulation and leave you worse off than before. If you don’t have access to prescriptions I would suggest obtaining CBG (only CBG. not CBG+Cbd as it would defeat the purpose) to help sensitize your receptors.
The one thing I would like to say, which you may disagree with. I think pharmaceutical drugs for the most are more straight forward when it comes to receptor affinity. They are created to do certain jobs. Also more studies for them I suppose because they are backed financially.
I hear you in regards to the antagonist agonist perspective. But I think herbs are more complex. And I don’t feel they have the same abilities to desensitize, or at least as directly, as drugs do. That’s not a blanket statement. But just in general. Over time they can speak to the body as they are part of earth without manipulation. Whereas pharma drugs are like a computer or worse, a weapon. Does what it’s programmed to do without any communication with the body. It will annihilate an entire group of receptors if it’s programmed to do so.
Obviously there are things like saw palmetto for example that are pretty straightforward.
But researching Gotu kola seems to be a lot of unknowns.
PEUS_DEUS
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Re: Bacopa and Gotu Kola results

Unread post by PEUS_DEUS »

Maxin wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:34 am
PEUS_DEUS wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:42 pm
ElaineBenes5 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:17 pm Have you trialed CBG and what were the results?
I take 10-20mg about 3 times a week before bed. Granted I take all antagonists and almost all meds helpful for PSSD at bed otherwise they don’t do anything for me.

It’s effective. I’m a non-responder to agonists because I’ve been desensitized/had PSSD for 2 decades. My only route is upregulation and/or sensitization. If I respond to something positively I suspect most people will. For me the effects start upon waking and last most of the day. I would equate it to about 15% of my cyproheptadine rebounds in terms of potency.
Ok so you sound like you may know more about these two herbs than me. I honestly don’t know much about them which is shocking because I know most treatments inside and out (not boasting just decades of trial and error). So you take both? What are all your symptoms? I came back on here tonight to post that I just had another 5-10 second brain shift. Weirdest thing ever. Almost freaks me out because in those few seconds I realize how much I’ve lost.
I’m nearing two decades as well. If someone has taken it here chances are I’ve been there done that. Basically about 200 grand when your factor in all the herbs drugs and doctors I’ve done and seen. So when something works enough to post here it’s a big deal for me.
What I’m hoping is that it’s recalibrating something in the brain. Just the way that other poster described that one day something clicked, led me to try these two things . Because that really spoke to me. It’s like this state is so simple and yet the most complicated predicament ever.
It’s like being in one side of a river and you need to get to the other side. You can see it l, you know it’s there and you used to live there, but you don’t have a boat, a raft, or even a log. So close but yet still so far away. That’s how this all feels for me. And that I made it to the other side for just a second.
Symptoms:

1. Low to no Libido
2. Weak senses. Smell, taste are non-existent and full body numbness.
3. I'm Male. I have no issues with erections. I just rarely get them because of the lack of sex drive.
4. Emotional numbness. This is by far the worst one for me. I haven't shed a tear, felt happy, felt sad, etc in 20+ years. Not once. Everything is just data to me. I'm completely unreactive to the even the most extreme situations.

I take CBG somewhat regularly as it provides a slight lubrication to life. However I have yet to find anything that does what Cyproheptadine does. A single low dose at night will restore my senses. A second days of low dosing will add a touch of character to everything. If I take a full dose on the third or 4th day (4mg) or just a single 8mg dose, I have a rebound a few days later that makes me 100% normal. The first time it happened I woke up, walked outside into public, and had to hold back tears. The sun hit me and I could actually feel it. The most basic of things (shitty music, shitty decorations) in this breakfast joint were about to have me in tears because I could actually appreciate their shittyness. If you have ever done psychedelics and prescribed character to something like music or art it's similar to that. I don't do it frequently as it's not a healthy drug to take long term. The emotional effect also never works for me if taking anything that has SRI.

While 5HT1A is important for most PSSD symptoms & subtypes, I'm fairly confident the emotional effect is from unusually potent 5HT2A antagonism or 5HT2A inverse-agonism causing a compensatory up-regulation of a secondary messenger or/ signal transduction pathway. I've gotten partial but similar effects from total sleep deprivation (causes transitory increase in 5HT2A binding until you go back to sleep) and psychedelics.
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