PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

This is a place to post research you have done on the topic along with your conclusions.
HzeTmy
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Re: PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

Unread post by HzeTmy »

I taken Risperidon for 7 days, Venlafaxin for 1.5 Month and Citalopram for 1.5 Month - Citalopram was the worst actually but all was terrible Venlafaxin inhibited my urine and im still struggle going to toilett peeing.
Kostakonkordia
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Re: PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

Unread post by Kostakonkordia »

It would be interesting if someone could actually go out there and test their active cyp450 enzymes. Not the gene thing. Actually most of the things people have been healed by are cyp modulators(i think mostly inhibitors if i recall correctly) Also the microbiom does interact with those enzymes so there could be some feetback loop or something going on. Its either that or a autoimmune reaction(its also interesting that quercetin is used as a antiallergic medication but it also inhibits some cyps. Psoriasis is also linked to elevated cyps) in general but finding those antibodies gonna take a long time. But regardless of all that, mercury poisoning is definitely one major cause factor. You have to get it out so your gut and imme system can stabilize and get back to some form of homeostasis. Im actually in the process of trying chelation but its gonna take some time either way. Also if you get the heavy metals out allergies etc. sometimes need up to 5 years to resolve according to Andrew cutler.
I can also imagine that there is some immune response against b12 transport protein thats probably the reason behind, genital numbness. Prior to that i was thinking that maybe ion channels are somehow linked to this, leading back to vit d and cytochrome. But i wasnt able to make any connections because the pathways are quite complex, or i was just lazy at that time...
So testing the enzymes would be interesting. And getting the metals out is almost mandatory because that will set you up for recovery.
Just some thoughts on my side.
HzeTmy
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Re: PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

Unread post by HzeTmy »

My allergy completely stopped after taking ginkgo 1 year and ginkgo has Quercetin ... But honestly i would take my allergy body back because i had no erection, libidlo problems back in days ...
Darman
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Re: PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

Unread post by Darman »

nicopickle wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:10 am Hello. I've had PAS/PSSD for 2 and a half years now. I've been trying to find a common mechanism between these drugs that could be tracked down to elicit similar symptoms from completely different mechanisms. I recently read a post about a girls story about getting PSSD, in her story, she mentioned that she tested her P450 enzymes for which drugs would work best for her, basically every drug had red flags saying she couldn't metabolize them. This post brought me to the PFS forum, and there have been people talking about these enzymes for 10+ years, and recently a user named spstriken talked about how he believes these enzymes are responsible for our symptoms, and I actually also agree.

Now I bet a lot of people wonder about the cases from a single dose of a drug, or very limited doses. This always confused me, especially with things like the SSRI causing gut dysbiosis. However the gut theory also comes into play in a way here, these P450 enzymes are most notably in the small intestine, and liver. They may seem like they are only good for absorbing drugs, however they are extremely important, even from a simple google search, you can find out that they are responsible for hormone, breakdown, and synthetization, they are also responsible for absorbing vitamin D, as well as a multitude of other things.

Now there along with all of the things they are responsible for, they are also needed to metabolize many things. I've always wondered why people stop responding to alcohol, and other substances when developing PSSD, well I think that its directly linked to the state of these enzymes. However I don't believe that there is any sort of damage to these enzymes, I think there is some sort of immune response, which is a protective mechanism when we are heavily dosing these drugs.

When I read all of these recovery stories, I was always so confused, you have people recovering from the most random substances, and a lot of the time, people are even cured by going back on the drug that caused the issues initially. I used to always skim past these posts until I really thought about it. One of my favorite recovery posts is by a user named "pete" on the PSSD forum. He initially got worse from trying to reinstate a dose of paxil, the drug that caused his issues, but when he decided to take a very low dose, then take a break, he began to improve.

My temporary recovery:

I had a temporary improvement from a fecal matter transplant a few months back, it even seemed to hold a bit of permanent improvement over time. But the interesting thing is when I began to get improvements. I initially did the FMT through enema for about two weeks, I didn't have much improvement, but I continued anyway as people have mentioned that you need to do many transplants to populate the microbiome. I implemented capsule FMT through the top down method, within 5 minutes of taking two capsules I noticed a pulsing in my brain, this was kind of frightening but also very intriguing. Something was happening, after about a day I began to get VERY tired, something that has been absent since this condition started. I woke up the next day feeling very optimistic, something in me had changed, over the next day all of my symptoms seemed to improve. I kept taking more and more capsules as I thought I was going to be cured within a month. After a day or two all of my improvements started to fade, and I developed these bumps all over my toes and feet that progressed as I continued to dose. These bumps are a sign of an immune response, and are prevalent in people with covid, usually called covid toes.

I continued to try and replicate this over a month continuing the FMT's. I was never able to replicate that experience... until I took a decent break from the FMT, I stopped for maybe a week or two then tried another dose, I became very tired, and felt my memories flowing through my brain, I felt high. At this time I continued FMT every few days to try and continue benefits, however everything would fade again, however I somehow got permanent improvement in libido from this FMT, which I later crashed to another FMT, which was accompanied by a night of restless leg syndrome, strange right?

I continued to try and understand exactly what happened here, why did such a low dose have such impact, but anything more or more often would completely void all improvements? I remember reading about what exactly accutane was a while back, 13-cis retinoic acid. It's basically what a human body makes vitamin A into, its the endogenous version of vitamin A. So this made me wonder, did I take a very small amount of accutane inside of the FMT? This made me very interested in reinstatement. about a week back I took a low dose of accutane, 3mg within an hour I felt something, I felt a sensation where my neck meets my brain, 5 minutes later I felt a tingling sensation in my genitals along with a tingling on the front right part of my neck. This was accompanied by an increase of my senses, I could feel the comfort of my blanket, and smelling increased. I could also take deep breaths effortlessly, something that has been difficult since this started. Over the rest of the day I felt my body more, like I was more aware of what my body was doing (hard to explain). The next day I woke up and I felt a little weird, I felt so in control of my body, like walking was so effortless, it felt normal to walk around, I felt like my IQ increased and I just felt normal in my body. I didn't notice anything else during this next day so I decided to take 10mg, this was definitely a mistake as I began to feel almost high initially, but over the day I felt worse, that night I had restless leg syndrome again, I even experienced DPDR as my hands would randomly feel like they weren't mine, and it has now been about a week since the dose, and I've began to get red bumps on my toes again.

I am currently waiting a while before dosing anything again as whenever I get these toes, things have literally no effect on me.

Conclusions:



Every case of PSSD-like symptoms can be traced back to these enzymes, along with the majority of recoveries are also based around having impact on these enzymes. There is no reason for people to get such drastic recoveries in such a short period of time if the cause was anything else. I don't believe any of us have any sort of damage, I think that these enzymes are just doing their job and protecting us from overdosing. I believe the way to recover is to basically take an incredibly small amount of certain supplements then stop, and wait. We need to show our body that these substances wont cause problems by introducing small amounts, and allowing the body to react accordingly.
I have read that grapefruit juice can inhibit these enzymes. Would this help or make things worse?
HzeTmy
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Re: PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

Unread post by HzeTmy »

I have another good theory, i watched this video about cyp enzymes https://youtu.be/vle_0dN3bwA

So ...

What if we was low in the cyp enzymes and the drugs was not metabolized fully and alot of unmetabolized parts entered our body because of leaky gut it's almost common that everyone had or has a leaky gut it often goes hand in hand very common alot of people don't know that actually nowdays depression is mainly a gut problem when the real body symptoms begin.

So we have now this unmetabolized particles everywhere inside our body, blood, brain and liver but the body can't get rid of it because when it was in the metabolic process we had not enough or no cyp enyzmes.

Make this sense ? If yes what would be your suggestion to detox unmetabolized drug particles out of the body where are they sitting ...
HzeTmy
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Re: PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

Unread post by HzeTmy »

St. Johns Wort just 1 pill makes my gut and muscles more relaxed feeling more like myself in that area but on the other hand my erection and libilo is way worse from 30% to 0% ...
lukejimmy
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Re: PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

Unread post by lukejimmy »

HzeTmy wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:07 pm I have another good theory, i watched this video about cyp enzymes https://youtu.be/vle_0dN3bwA

So ...

What if we was low in the cyp enzymes and the drugs was not metabolized fully and alot of unmetabolized parts entered our body because of leaky gut it's almost common that everyone had or has a leaky gut it often goes hand in hand very common alot of people don't know that actually nowdays depression is mainly a gut problem when the real body symptoms begin.

So we have now this unmetabolized particles everywhere inside our body, blood, brain and liver but the body can't get rid of it because when it was in the metabolic process we had not enough or no cyp enyzmes.

Make this sense ? If yes what would be your suggestion to detox unmetabolized drug particles out of the body where are they sitting ...
Yea well if you subscribe to my theory, this study https://sci-hub.se/https://pubmed.ncbi. ... /10755579/ and the fact it Fluoxetine is a PFAS Forever Chemical already proves it is true.
I'd say thats more then enough reason to get Risperidone, Venlafaxine and Citalopram Blood Tests In your case @HzeTmy.
Risperidone and Citalolpram are PFAS Forever Chemicals (both Per-FluoroAlkyl Substances) but Venlafaxine is chlorinated yet still metabolized by Cyp2d6, so therefore might act like a Forever Chemical in Genetically Deficient CYP2D6 Poor Metabolizers - 10% of the population.
Darman wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:45 am Ok this is a great theory. What can we do to pursue it?
If you believe this 3rd Person account, a Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Victim 'Venceremos' had apparently already figured out the Cause/Cure of PSSD/PFS/Fluoroquinolone Toxicity, a year before I even was prescribed Fluoxetine + Risperdal!!!
https://forum.propeciahelp.com/t/proof- ... de-us/5993
Very bizarre that 'xhorndog' is the only source for this supposed PROOF, almost a year after formerly extremely active user 'Venceremos' completely disappeared from the PFS Forum.
Which doesn't make any sense given he found proof and didn't come back to the forums to announce this Cure/Cause of our Conditions. I hope he wasn't killed trying to get this Information out to the World. There's heaps of threads on forum.propeciahelp.com discussing my theory just use the search term "still inside"

I'm still hesitating to get a blood test because I'm worried the drugs accumulated in tissue and am doing last minute research to make sure as much of the drug will be in the Blood as possible Vs Tissues. It's been around 3 years since I reinstated Prozac btw. Should probably stop procrastinating and get one ASAP idk they are quite expensive so want to do everything I can to maximize drug blood levels versus tissue accumulation.
HzeTmy
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Re: PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

Unread post by HzeTmy »

Hmm should i go to my home doctor and say him :

Hey doc, i have chronic health problems + erection libidlo issues after Risp, Venla and Citalo could you please check my blood if this substances are still in my blood ?

Also wondering if home doctors are able to do it i mean isn't that just a expensive lab test. It's not usual people ask for this kind of tests.

Wouldn't it be better to find a really good forever chemicals detox method or something similiar and try that instead. I will go 13. Now to my doctor to check my liver, kidney, vitamins and minerals i was malnutritioned for 6 months now ... Heart also feeling fucked :( if my kidney and liver not works nothing will help me even a detox will fail.
Darman
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Re: PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

Unread post by Darman »

There really could be something here at last with this - either the 'forever chemical' or immune protection. So much anecdotal evidence points to something like this. People can get it from '1 pill'. When Ill it sometimes gives windows etc...

Im happy to get a blood test but what do I test for?

I have done a test on how to remove 'forever chemicals' and there are options. Haven't read them properly as busy at work but some info here perhaps:

https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2017/11/13 ... x-binders/

There was a post on here a while back about what was effectively an 'inverse' version of escitalopram (Lexapro) - perhaps this may help.
HzeTmy
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Re: PSSD/PFS/PAS - The P450 Enzymes - Possible Mechanism

Unread post by HzeTmy »

I wonder if Pharma industries don't add extra secret chemicals that are made to stay in brain or body so we don't relapse in depression. Would our body detox this shit all would relapse in depression. They must know more then we and everyone else.

I bought Burbur - Pinella should be for brain and body detox i hope this will help something.
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