PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

This is for hypothesis and even educated speculation.
DeepRacer
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by DeepRacer »

sylv wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:16 pm
DeepRacer wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:43 pm
sylv wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:54 am

The assumption PSSD is caused by anti-androgen action and it's the same disease like PFS has never been proven

This discussion is about SFP / Autonomic nervous system, not androgens so please stay on topic.
You can literally read about antidepressants and Accutane causing anti androgenic behavior here. It's extremely well documented: https://www.propeciahelp.com/wp-content ... ndrome.pdf
I think we need to step back and revaluate the direction we're headed. If we continue down this rabbit hole of eccentric theories also being pushed by David Healy, we're never going to get anywhere or make any progress. In the document I linked, you can clearly see countless studies showing how finasteride is so similar to the anti androgenicity of antidepressants and isotretinoins.

I read this paper. It's mostly pointing to testosterone and DHT. There is a lot literature on testosterone deficiency and I don't see it mentioning a lack of androgens causing dysautonomia, genital anaesthesia or severe emotional blunting. I would rather believe PFS is a rare manifestation of severe neurosteroids deprivation which finasteride is well documented to cause, while SSRI effect on neurosteroids is a mild and inconsistent. The sexual symptoms also aren't completely the same like the Cobi Reisman pointed out in the last webinar. If you look closely what SSRI could persistently cause it's Tardive Dysphoria / Akathisia, Frontal lobe syndromes, PAWS and PSSD. All are probably the different variation of the same disorder as being caused by the same substance. PFS effect on mental functions isn't so wide. I have never seen PFS sufferers reporting akathisia. Also PSSD people don't mention so much physical symptoms like shrinking genitalia, drastic muscle damage ( except rarely proprioception ), skin damage or gums damage like PFS people do.

Similiar symptomatology could be caused by many completely different diseases. For example flu-like symptoms being present in fungal , bacterial, virus infection, cancers and a lot more. All could be alleviated by anti-inflammatory drugs but not cured, because are different diseases.
I have to disagree. I myself and many others if you read enough have many physical symptoms of PSSD including testicular shrinkage and dryness in the glans and color changes in the genitals. Antidepressants do have a large effect on neurosteroids also. It’s well known mirtazapine depletes allopregnanolone which is so important for neuroprotection while prozac increases it which is why some pfs people take it. All I’m saying is that nobody is really getting any better by messing with their serotonin/dopamine ratio or their immune system. The large majority of the recovery stories I’ve read or induced windows have been through taking exogenous hormones and a little through gut micro biome modulation.
DeepRacer
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Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:09 pm
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by DeepRacer »

DeepRacer wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:36 pm
sylv wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:16 pm
DeepRacer wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:43 pm
You can literally read about antidepressants and Accutane causing anti androgenic behavior here. It's extremely well documented: https://www.propeciahelp.com/wp-content ... ndrome.pdf
I think we need to step back and revaluate the direction we're headed. If we continue down this rabbit hole of eccentric theories also being pushed by David Healy, we're never going to get anywhere or make any progress. In the document I linked, you can clearly see countless studies showing how finasteride is so similar to the anti androgenicity of antidepressants and isotretinoins.

I read this paper. It's mostly pointing to testosterone and DHT. There is a lot literature on testosterone deficiency and I don't see it mentioning a lack of androgens causing dysautonomia, genital anaesthesia or severe emotional blunting. I would rather believe PFS is a rare manifestation of severe neurosteroids deprivation which finasteride is well documented to cause, while SSRI effect on neurosteroids is a mild and inconsistent. The sexual symptoms also aren't completely the same like the Cobi Reisman pointed out in the last webinar. If you look closely what SSRI could persistently cause it's Tardive Dysphoria / Akathisia, Frontal lobe syndromes, PAWS and PSSD. All are probably the different variation of the same disorder as being caused by the same substance. PFS effect on mental functions isn't so wide. I have never seen PFS sufferers reporting akathisia. Also PSSD people don't mention so much physical symptoms like shrinking genitalia, drastic muscle damage ( except rarely proprioception ), skin damage or gums damage like PFS people do.

Similiar symptomatology could be caused by many completely different diseases. For example flu-like symptoms being present in fungal , bacterial, virus infection, cancers and a lot more. All could be alleviated by anti-inflammatory drugs but not cured, because are different diseases.
I have to disagree. I myself and many others if you read enough have many physical symptoms of PSSD including testicular shrinkage and dryness in the glans and color changes in the genitals. Antidepressants do have a large effect on neurosteroids also. It’s well known mirtazapine depletes allopregnanolone which is so important for neuroprotection while prozac increases it which is why some pfs people take it. All I’m saying is that nobody is really getting any better by messing with their serotonin/dopamine ratio or their immune system. The large majority of the recovery stories I’ve read or induced windows have been through taking exogenous hormones and a little through gut micro biome modulation.
Also if you read the article you know that it was far more than just a deficiency of testosterone. It talks about lack of DHT and inhibition of DHT conversion into different neurosteroids which is basically the definition of finasteride.
Janie
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by Janie »

Hey, I'm interested in the graph, I have my results. Yes, he likely used the tipical medical ranges... he is a good doctor though he really tried to help. I'm suffering for almost 8 years.
namaste
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by namaste »

After ~8 years of being in this community and researching online I’m convinced that there is something to the autoimmune theory.

PFS, benzo withdrawal, VSS, dp/dr, HPPD, long covid, dysautonomia. The list of populations that have significant symptom overlap with this one goes on and on. The commonality being some kind of traumatic stress/insult to the brain, setting off a cascade of events whereby the individual’s system gets caught in a loop.

Look up the overlap between NO/ONOO , central sensitization, neuropathy, autoimmune issues, and MCAS. The information is all out there. In my mind, the ‘cure’ has always been to calm down the nervous system, which then calms down the autoimmune storm. Easier said than done though, which is why many people get stuck with the same symptoms for years.
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