Ambien, anyone tried this? Gaba manipulation downstream similarities with alcohol withdrawal/hangove

[Numbed]

Right, where to start... lots getting relieve from hangovers, where cns and nmda (hyper)activity is present with increased reward sensitivity.

According to wikipedia page on alcohol withdrawal something that cought my eye was downregulation of alpha1 and alpha3 subunits and upregulation of alpha4, aswell as nmda upregulation in particular affecting nmdar2b.

So it is well known that alcohol is sedative and a depressant, which makes sense that a hangover does the opposite = increasing awareness and an ANTI-sedative effect (both physical and mental, think increased penile sensitivity and mental arousal).

So the journey has started of somewhat mimicing an hangover.

So far I have found that Ambien is used by many as a sexual enhancer, particulary when staying awake on it.

According to LiveStrong:

"Ambien may also lead to more outgoing and aggressive behavior, leading to initiation of sex, on longer or more varied sexual encounters."

Also it says Ambien(zolpidem) leads to eating tons of food (hedonic tone/reward sensitivity)

"Ambiens effect of increasing sex drive is purely mental"

This is in agreement with lots of us here having eniugh T yet we have no desire to have sex cause of low hedonic tone.

For the post finasteride users here some small info: the alpha4 subunit is in control of regulating neurosteroid sensitivity including that of allopregnenalone and other 3,5a metabolites.

Zolpidem decrease prefrontal dopamine, increase mesolimic DA system (addiction fueling, overeating, emotions)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1981584

"Zolpidem has been reported to improve arousal in disorders of consciousness"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24417935

"Zolpidem also produced an increase in the ampa/nmda ratio in VTA dopamine neurons.
These findings suggest a role for the mesolimbic dopamine system in the initial actions of and on neuronal adaptations to benzodiazepenes."

"Here we report that single in VIVO dose of benzodiazepine-site agonists, similar to morphine and ethanol, induce a modulation in the glutaminergic transmission of VTA dopamine neurons."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18563060

Zolpidem has a very short halflife, it is worth a shot, allthough it probably will not heal us it might offer us some relieve and on demand joy.

Going to order and try gain a tollerance to zolpidem in an attempt to gain a new permanent homeosteasis that has an amplified arousal system.
My guess would be to just take it as a daily sleep aid and see how If I notice increased arousal during daytime.

Yours sincerely, human labrat who might just happen to be a genius.

[marsupial]

Thanks for your investigation! Is it true that some of us have better PSSD when hangover??

[Numbed]

Yes, including myself, some others report it after a night of GHB use.

Best way to find out? obviously to try it.

another case of a low dose benzo (clonazepam) comeodown:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/667 ... -Sex-Drive

"Original Poster- I reject everything that the thread has told you. I take a very low dose very occasionally, and it makes my libido go through the roof. Not right away. More likely when I'm coming off of it a bit. But it's not just "lowering inhibitions" or a "placebo". I get absolutely sex crazed, where I can't stop touching myself and start thinking about doing everyone and everything. It's not normal and it's definitely hyper sexual. Also, I know someone else who went from sexually active and happily married to blowing $45,000 on hookers in 10 months when his doctor put him on Klonopin. He did say he had some erectile dysfunction as well, but the Klonopin was hyper-arousing him AND causing the erectile dysfunction. I know him and his (now ex)wife and judging by my own experience with this drug, I totally believe it was more than a dampening of "inhibitions"."

It seems that the compensation mechanism for being sedated/on a benzo is compensatory enhancement of arousal systems, which im pretty sure is lowered alot in PSSD, fuck we cannot even get hard or flinch when we are about to get hit by a truck...

Also im pretty sure everyone on this forum suffers from DE (delayed ejaculation) rather than PE(premature ejaculation).

[Ghost]

Look in the direction of GABA A and it's role in inhibiting 5-HT in the DRN. Then tie that into hormones.

There is a lot of research there and I think it would interest you.

I'll attach a study or so below.

[Ghost]

I apologize for the lack of formatting, but these are some good studies.




Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors directly alter activity of neurosteroidogenic enzymes

Lisa D. Griffin*† and Synthia H. Mellon*‡§



Differential regulation of steroid 5-reductase isozymes expression by androgens in the adult rat brain
J. M. TORRES* AND E. ORTEGA*,†,1




Fluoxetine and norfluoxetine stereospecifically and selectively increase brain neurosteroid content at doses that are inactive on 5-HT reuptake
Pinna et al., 2006




Klink et al., 2002
Gender and gonadal status modulation of dorsal raphe nucleus serotonergic neurons. Part II. Regulatory mechanisms




Emerging Roles for Neurosteroids Review in Sexual Behavior and Function
STEVEN R. KING, 2008






The progesterone metabolite allopregnanolone potentiates GABAA receptor-mediated inhibition of 5-HT neuronal activity

Vikas Kaura, Colin D. Ingram, Sarah E. Gartside, Allan H. Young, Sarah J. Judge *

[Coraggio]

Yes, including myself, some others report it after a night of GHB use.

Best way to find out? obviously to try it.

another case of a low dose benzo (clonazepam) comeodown:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/667 ... -Sex-Drive

"Original Poster- I reject everything that the thread has told you. I take a very low dose very occasionally, and it makes my libido go through the roof. Not right away. More likely when I'm coming off of it a bit. But it's not just "lowering inhibitions" or a "placebo". I get absolutely sex crazed, where I can't stop touching myself and start thinking about doing everyone and everything. It's not normal and it's definitely hyper sexual. Also, I know someone else who went from sexually active and happily married to blowing $45,000 on hookers in 10 months when his doctor put him on Klonopin. He did say he had some erectile dysfunction as well, but the Klonopin was hyper-arousing him AND causing the erectile dysfunction. I know him and his (now ex)wife and judging by my own experience with this drug, I totally believe it was more than a dampening of "inhibitions"."

It seems that the compensation mechanism for being sedated/on a benzo is compensatory enhancement of arousal systems, which im pretty sure is lowered alot in PSSD, fuck we cannot even get hard or flinch when we are about to get hit by a truck...

Also im pretty sure everyone on this forum suffers from DE (delayed ejaculation) rather than PE(premature ejaculation).

Very interesting Man! I know that Gaba receptors are 33% of all synapses in the brain. SSRI increase a lot allopregnenolone, a potent gaba agonist neurostetoid. Allopregnenolone withdrawal upregulate alpha4 subunits too.
Gaba receptors are ionotropic and they have a lot of subunits. Neurosteroid/ neurosteroid withdrawal can alter subunit composition of gaba receptors. Many neurosteroids are gaba modulators and their gaba affinity is due by which subunits is made gaba receptors. A healthy gabaergic can inhibits properly serotonin system and is involved in reward system with glutaminerc and dopaminergic function

Ps: my brother doesn' t have pssd altought he took much more and much longer SSRI maybe because it took it always with bezos. Altought I don' t think He has a perfect normal sexuality but He hasn' t PSSD.

[Coraggio]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3031054/

Allopregnenolone tolerance and Gabaergic function in ventro-posteriomedial nucleus of thalamus ( it is brain region involved in the reward system).
Gaba system deserves its own thread and focus. Gaba neurons are very important both in the neurotransmitter function and also in neurosteroid action.

[lost_soul]

This is interesting. There has been a lot of really good research done recently. I often wonder if perhaps the ultimate cure is going back on ssris while taking something like ambien/estradiol/b. caapi etc and tapering off but I am way too scared to try. I saw a psychiatrist and my CPN just now and it hit me how rare this is. My CPN has worked in this field for 26 years and he has never had one patient report these permanent sexual affects to him out of the thousands he has seen on antidepressants, antipsychotics etc.

However, if the increase in libido is totally mental will it help with PSSD? I don't get morning erections most of the time, I don't think I even get nocturnal ones because my penis has shrunk. Are sleep erections caused by the same mechanism as psychogenic waking ones?

I would like to try something like b. caapi extract + cialis + ropinirole + cdp choline + possibly ambien. Would there be any issues with this stack?

[Ausguy222]

Personally I discount ever needing to go back on an ssri as a good idea in any case. Why, when they are the reason for damage to begin with?

Possible that ambien would work but the fact it's not a long term solution is what bothers me. Alcohol and tramadol/ opiates have the same positive effect for me - but of course are not long term solutions. I've no doubt they work just as ambien would, isolating why is what I'd focus on more.

Opiates are renowned to cause hyperprolactinemia. Yet we know high prolactin kills sex drive. Methinks there is some way the body uprrgulates a shiteload of dopamine along some pathway (maybe even serotonin too) to counteract this. Maybe this even depletes serotonin (as most problems can also be associated with far too much serotonin).

I've mentioned it elsewhere but steroid hormones can also alter neurotransmitters in that hyper sexual vein. Trenbolone is known to cause an irrationally high sex drive - not just because it is androgenic but from what it does in the brain. When it is ceased it also causes a huge serotonin depletion and loss of sex drive and interest in sex.

I sure know tramadol can make me horny as all shit. Gaba fwiw didn't do much for me though

[Numbed]

Correct it seems to be that drugs that raise prolactin induce dopaminergic compensation during withdrawal, one of the reasons I suspect is that due to ssris raising prolactin that our bodies have lost the ability to break prolactin down.

A study showing that ginkgo increases TRH mRNA and prolactin mRNA in parts of the brain, yet actually lowers circulating prolactin and increases dopaminergic tone in the reward system, increases nom contact erections.

Our ssri use has probably annihilated all our prolactin receptors in the brain due to overload while on ssris, the result being that we now have zilch prolactin receptors for prolactin to attach to so prolactin can be removed from the body.

Phospatidylserine also raises prolactin mRNA, yet is testosterone boosting and cortisol lowering supplement, can you see the link yet?

I strongly believe that it are the toxic metabolites such as acetaldehyde that are being detoxified that induce the dopaminergic reward upregulation.

Makes sense from an evolutionairy perspective that your body surviving a toxin induces a reward response.

Shouldnt we be giving ourself ultra low doses of toxins/pro oxidants along with detoxification enhancers such as sulforaphane.