Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

General discussions. Feel free to use this like a support group also.
Kinncrimson
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Kinncrimson »

I will make a blood test with these specific datas next week...
silverstar
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by silverstar »

I've been on the mini pill progeserone only pill norethindrone for over 2 years... The first year was great I felt an increase in libido...I had no side effects

Then I had whatever the f happened to me when I woke up one morning completely numb (with the h5tp incident and probably a million other things I fucked up on..Blah)

I am still on the birth control pill nothing much has improved with the pssd symptoms.

Definitely going to go off it just to make sure... I've been wanting to for a while anyway. I think my pssd issue is a huge cosmic cluster of genetics, chemicals and misfortune.

Thanks for posting this...I guess it's worth a try I'll report back if stopping the pill gives me my love life back... That would be a freaking miracle
nonsense
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by nonsense »

Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum. My story abbreviated - Citalopram 40 mg between July 2015 and May 2016. Had some sexual issues while on the medication and it was not helping my mental health issues much so I decided to stop hoping my sexuality would return to normal. Was not meant to be. I am able to achieve erection at the moment, but only from direct physical stimulation, it is very hard to maintain it but I also have premature ejactulation so...I also have soft glans. I had never had these isssues before the SSRI. If anything I was hypersexual.

Anyways, been lurking here for a long time. As many, I started off with hormones, and I believe managed to push my (serum) hormones in the right direction. Unfortunately, that did not help one bit. So I thank Corragio for his suggestion to test for Progesterone. Unfortunately, I could not really afford to test for the 17-OH metabolite and Andtrostenedione. My progesterone did come back high according to the lab range but it seems there is no clear range for PROG in men. According to information I found online some labs would consider my values normal, others extremely high. So I suggest everyone posts the lab ranges they were given as well.

Here are my latest hormonal tests and ranges:

Mar 30
PROGESTERONE * 1.8 nmol/L [0.2 - 0.5] HIGH

Feb 23
Serum prolactin level 157 mu/L [60 - 300]
Serum oestradiol level 139 pmol/L [0 - 190]
Serum testosterone level 32.6 nmol/L [10 - 30] HIGH
Serum sex hormone binding globulin level 39 nmol/L [15 - 55]
Marksanchez397
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Marksanchez397 »

nonsense wrote:Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum. My story abbreviated - Citalopram 40 mg between July 2015 and May 2016. Had some sexual issues while on the medication and it was not helping my mental health issues much so I decided to stop hoping my sexuality would return to normal. Was not meant to be. I am able to achieve erection at the moment, but only from direct physical stimulation, it is very hard to maintain it but I also have premature ejactulation so...I also have soft glans. I had never had these isssues before the SSRI. If anything I was hypersexual.

Anyways, been lurking here for a long time. As many, I started off with hormones, and I believe managed to push my (serum) hormones in the right direction. Unfortunately, that did not help one bit. So I thank Corragio for his suggestion to test for Progesterone. Unfortunately, I could not really afford to test for the 17-OH metabolite and Andtrostenedione. My progesterone did come back high according to the lab range but it seems there is no clear range for PROG in men. According to information I found online some labs would consider my values normal, others extremely high. So I suggest everyone posts the lab ranges they were given as well.

Here are my latest hormonal tests and ranges:

Mar 30
PROGESTERONE * 1.8 nmol/L [0.2 - 0.5] HIGH

Feb 23
Serum prolactin level 157 mu/L [60 - 300]
Serum oestradiol level 139 pmol/L [0 - 190]
Serum testosterone level 32.6 nmol/L [10 - 30] HIGH
Serum sex hormone binding globulin level 39 nmol/L [15 - 55]
So progesterona, androstenediona, etc seems to be the key deffinitly...
I took citalopram too and right after quitting It i went from delayed to premature ejaculations too. I thought that delayed ejaculations was more common in people with PSSD. But lately i'm reading more people with premature...
Your testosterona i s high. Are you taking TRT or something like that?
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Ghost
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Ghost »

Interesting to note...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC23979/

Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors directly alter activity of neurosteroidogenic enzymes
Lisa D. Griffin*† and Synthia H. Mellon*‡§

"The Km for rat 3α-HSD was ≈59 nM whereas the Vmax was ≈200 nmol/mg protein/min. These values are consistent with the Km and Vmax previously reported by other investigators (24). When fluoxetine was added to the reaction, the Km of the enzyme decreased dramatically to only 0.6 nM: that is, a 100-fold decrement in the Km. This indicates that fluoxetine has dramatically increased the affinity of the enzyme for the substrate DHP. The Vmax for the enzyme decreased 2-fold in the presence of fluoxetine."


Additionally:

"Other selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, as well as another antidepressant with serotonergic properties, were tested to determine whether they would similarly affect 3α-HSD activity. Our results demonstrate that the SSRI paroxetine also decreased the Km of the enzyme when DHP was used as substrate (from 59 nM to 1.6 nM) and slightly decreased the Km when allopregnanolone was used as substrate (from 10.3 μM to 8.6 μM) (Table ​(Table1).1). The tricyclic imipramine was ineffective in altering the Km or Vmax of either reaction. The enzymatic efficiency of the reductive reaction increased 15-fold in the presence of paroxetine (from 4.4 to 64.3), although it was not changed with imipramine in either direction."

"These experiments directly demonstrate a novel molecular mechanism for specific SSRI action."


So I think that you could be on to something, Coraggio. I haven't found a researcher that has tied this to SERT yet, which means that if the dots can be connected between this enzyme and SERT that this could be the cause of SERT changes. It's obviously a long-shot, but no one has ever found out the definite mechanism of SSRI's before, so it would be a totally new theory.
- Medical Student & Friendly poltergeist - Lexapro Sept '14. [Hx] [PSSD Lab] [r/PSSD] [Treatment Plan] - Add "Ghost" in replies so I see it :)
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Ghost
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Ghost »

- Medical Student & Friendly poltergeist - Lexapro Sept '14. [Hx] [PSSD Lab] [r/PSSD] [Treatment Plan] - Add "Ghost" in replies so I see it :)
Blackout
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Blackout »

I've had below range progesterone levels since got PSSD. Supplemented with progesterone for some months a few years ago, didn't make any difference. But again, my case has always been out of this forum. And now everything is comming to an end as it's becomming clearer that my gut is responsible for the magnitude of my PSSD. I don't have money, so I can't confirm, but I guess it's likely that I've got something very , very serious somewhere in my digestive system. However while I still wasn't ill -at least I didn't realized that- my progesterone was low and my PSSD was terrible.
Coraggio
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Coraggio »

Hell yeah! Gonna find a marker!!

It is interseting that autistic embryos have high PROG,17-PROG and Androstenedione. Autistic like behaviour is supposed that is due to a SERT downregulation/mutation. It is also interesting that SSRI are used to create autistic rats models.

Guys go on testing Progesterone, 17-oh progesterone, Androstenedione, Testosterone.
omar90
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by omar90 »

The autism link is interesting. I found myself requesting an autism assessment after coming off Prozac because things just didn't feel right - no emotions, lack of empathy, inability to connect, obsessive thinking. This was obviously before i had heard of PSSD.

Testing progesterone tomorrow, should have results in 7 days
Fluoxetine 2008-13, PSSD thereafter

Condition worsened after 4 weeks on Setraline in 2014
nonsense
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by nonsense »

Marksanchez397 wrote:
nonsense wrote:Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum. My story abbreviated - Citalopram 40 mg between July 2015 and May 2016. Had some sexual issues while on the medication and it was not helping my mental health issues much so I decided to stop hoping my sexuality would return to normal. Was not meant to be. I am able to achieve erection at the moment, but only from direct physical stimulation, it is very hard to maintain it but I also have premature ejactulation so...I also have soft glans. I had never had these isssues before the SSRI. If anything I was hypersexual.

Anyways, been lurking here for a long time. As many, I started off with hormones, and I believe managed to push my (serum) hormones in the right direction. Unfortunately, that did not help one bit. So I thank Corragio for his suggestion to test for Progesterone. Unfortunately, I could not really afford to test for the 17-OH metabolite and Andtrostenedione. My progesterone did come back high according to the lab range but it seems there is no clear range for PROG in men. According to information I found online some labs would consider my values normal, others extremely high. So I suggest everyone posts the lab ranges they were given as well.

Here are my latest hormonal tests and ranges:

Mar 30
PROGESTERONE * 1.8 nmol/L [0.2 - 0.5] HIGH

Feb 23
Serum prolactin level 157 mu/L [60 - 300]
Serum oestradiol level 139 pmol/L [0 - 190]
Serum testosterone level 32.6 nmol/L [10 - 30] HIGH
Serum sex hormone binding globulin level 39 nmol/L [15 - 55]
So progesterona, androstenediona, etc seems to be the key deffinitly...
I took citalopram too and right after quitting It i went from delayed to premature ejaculations too. I thought that delayed ejaculations was more common in people with PSSD. But lately i'm reading more people with premature...
Your testosterona i s high. Are you taking TRT or something like that?
I'm 28 and not using TRT. My testosterone has always been on the high side, but I recently started supplementing vitamin K2 which is what I think pushed it quite high. On the other hand, I think high serum T may also mean low 5aR activity and lower DHT levels.

I think it will be hard to definitevely prove high progesterone is the root cause, but it helps to have some unusual result to show a doctor when they try to dismiss you as depressed or crazy. It is ofcourse possible that I've always had high PROG. I went to my GP with my results today - he said progesterone is never really tested in men so he had no idea what to do. It seems like adrenal function may also be worth checking but he did not suggest that.

I see talk of PROG being a 5aR inhibitor, but have not really been able to find a good source confirming this. Additionally, 5aR is what reduces PROG into 5a-DHP which gets metabolized into allopreganolone by 3a-HSD. Is it possible for a steroid to inhibit the very enzyme that is supposed to metabolize it? (as you can tell - not a scientist and this stuff is frying what's left of my brain)
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