Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

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Blackout
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Blackout »

Coraggio wrote:Ok.. very well. It seems that a lot of us have high or normal high Delta-4 hormones, that are prog, 17-prog and androstenedione and a lower T than other hormones but usually T is still normal. But, in the end, science doesn' t know anything about treating progesterone issue. Sure I will refer to Melcangi.

But.. In the end I have found that my problem is very low free testosterone despite a good total T level. I mean, like everybody what you should test is free testosterone. Testosterone is made by testis from androstenedione. When it passes into the blood stream it is bounded by SHBG (sexual hormone binding globuline). When T is bounded is inactive, when is free, T is active. Normally we have free testosterone that is 1-2% of total testosterone. The problem is that SSRI are found to increase the SHBG and so to decrease free T.

This action is probably made by serotonin acting in liver ( yes serotonin can play also in the liver) but what it is sure that also progesterone plays the same thing: it increases SHBG and so decreases free T in a dose dependant manner. Prog decreases also brain and testis Testosterone up-take. So, we fucking want a way to decrease SHBG in order to let Testosterone do his work properly.

Normal T range are more-less: 250-900 ng/dl. If you are young you should have more than 500-600 to be normal. 250 is normal for a 80 years old man, not you if you are <50 ys old...

Free testosterone is normal between 45- 250 pg/ml. Usually you have proportional free T with total testosterone. Normally free Testosterone drops more quikly than Testosterone with age.
1 ng/dl is 10 pg/ml. You can have nmol/l in your test and google a testostetone converter. It is the same theory. Note: if you find a normal range for examples 27-69 pg/ml this is due by a statistical demographic study. This doesn' t mean that are physiological values.
We live in a world full of plastic and we eat food coming by animals fed with tons of soy, so we eat a lot more phytoestrogens than our grandpa... but this shit is for everybody, also not-pssd.. so "normal" hormonal range are changed, but they don' t mean what it is physiological anymore.

Said so, me for exemple:

I have 748 ng/dl of Total Testosterone. It is a good value
BUT
I have only 29 pg/ml of Free Testosterone. It is very low. This means that I have less than 0.5% free testosterone form. I should have at least the double.


Now the question is: how can we decrease SHBG? The natural way to do that are Magnesium, maybe Boron but are weak...

Question is still open
I wrote a thread about this a long time ago. I too have almost non-existant levels of Free T in my body. Last time I tested it, about a year and a half, it was like 0.01 %, so virtually that is nothing. So it's not surprising the terrible decline in my mental capabilities and overall health, that, coupled with my progressing gut problems. I don't know what my free T values were before PSSD, but the 3 or 4 times I've tested it since 2012, it has come very, very low and I'll bet that at this time I no longer have free T. And my SHBG was not high, so with no clear explanation for that, I'm unable to do something to help it. Any ideas? I guess no matter if I tried 10, 20, 30 g T weekly, my free T would remain on the floor.
Bigmum
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Bigmum »

That's interesting.....SHBG is not the only reason for problem with low free T
Sorry for my bad (terrible) English.
GIXXER
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by GIXXER »

I picked up my timeline of my antidepressant use from my Dr. today. I was on Imipramine in 2007. What I find interesting is I was able to have enjoyable sex but I still had ED and never masturbated. I contribute this factor due to PSSD from using effexor from 2005 to Spring of 2007. My biggest decision now is do I go back on Imipramine or try Wellbutrin till we discover a solution to this hell.
Bigmum
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Bigmum »

Did you have any problem with proscar?
Sorry for my bad (terrible) English.
GIXXER
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by GIXXER »

When I first started taking proscar in my early 20's I never had problem. Ive never suspected proscar as the cause of my PSS. After reading other accounts of ED it may have contributed to PSSD. I suspect it maybe possible because I stopped taking proscar last year. I slowly started having windows and improvements with the low dose paxil experiment up until a couple of weeks ago when I started taking proscar again. Im back down to zero with even worse depression. Ive decided its best to stop taking proscar. Ill see how I feel in the next few days. I may give the low dose paxil experiment another try to see if I can gain back what I had.
Juvo
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Juvo »

GIXXER wrote:When I first started taking proscar in my early 20's I never had problem. Ive never suspected proscar as the cause of my PSS. After reading other accounts of ED it may have contributed to PSSD. I suspect it maybe possible because I stopped taking proscar last year. I slowly started having windows and improvements with the low dose paxil experiment up until a couple of weeks ago when I started taking proscar again. Im back down to zero with even worse depression. Ive decided its best to stop taking proscar. Ill see how I feel in the next few days. I may give the low dose paxil experiment another try to see if I can gain back what I had.
Propecia and Proscar can cause PFS, which is eerily similar to PSSD. So much so that I'm not sure you'd be able to tell whigh drugs screwed you up, the ssri or the Proscar. Maybe both.
GIXXER
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by GIXXER »

I never suspected proscar because it didn't affect me until I got PSSD from taking effexor. Maybe the combination of the 2 was the problem.
Coraggio
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Coraggio »

DoIt wrote:My total T is low but my free T is on the high end of reference range. SHBG is low. :/
Can you give us your values?
T and free T. better if you have the others...
Coraggio
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Coraggio »

Guys keep on testing!!

Most important hormones are:

1) Free testosterone
2) total testosterone
3) progesterone
4) 17- Hydroxytestosterone
5) androstenedione
6) SHBG or albumin( it binds everything in the blood, also testosterone. free T is unbounded from both SHBG and Albumin. So if you two between free T, SHBG and albumin, we can calculate the third with a specific calculator).


Better if test also, FSH, LH, 17-Beta Estradiol and PRL.

If we have low free T for high SHBG induced by high Progesterone, it means that we have an hormonal accumulation in the testis.
I have found that inhibin, a particular glicoprotein made by sertoli cells, it can play a good role in the steroid enzymes synthesis upregulating 17-Alpha HSD.
this could lead to fix high progesterone mess. Inhibin is synthetized through FSH stimulation.
Bigmum
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Re: Progesterone, 17- Oh progesterone, Androstenedione

Unread post by Bigmum »

Do you think that it is also conected with women problems ?
Sorry for my bad (terrible) English.
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