New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
Re: New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
Is it from Healy or Csoka? I see nothing special though, just saying the things we already know.
Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live.
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Re: New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
Other study on D2 antagonists ("antipsychotics") very rapidly having similar effects as well:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4203323/
They mention, for example, NMDA-antagonists can acutely counter-effect this, but probably do little afterwards.
I suggest someone to try a synergistic combination like:
-Schisandra (Schisandrin B is an RT inhibitor, apparently not entirely dissimilar to expensive anti-HIV drugs talked about here; it should be either high Schisandrin extract or smell fresh and sour, not musty, I noticed different effectiveness)
-EGCG/Green tea extract (known demethylation agent, I think Schisandra worked better when I took them together)
-Curcumin (deacetylation agent - although acetylation is confusing, sometimes drugs are said to acetylate or deacetylate, but above it's acetylise. Needs to be high in curcuminoids and black pepper, not just powder.)
If I hadn't tried them independently, thinking one would be preferential over the other, and so spent some money in the recent past (also on other stuff, with eyes on different new stuff too), I think I would try this next. But synergistically I think they had an effect, although good Schisandra can also have one on its own.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4203323/
They mention, for example, NMDA-antagonists can acutely counter-effect this, but probably do little afterwards.
I suggest someone to try a synergistic combination like:
-Schisandra (Schisandrin B is an RT inhibitor, apparently not entirely dissimilar to expensive anti-HIV drugs talked about here; it should be either high Schisandrin extract or smell fresh and sour, not musty, I noticed different effectiveness)
-EGCG/Green tea extract (known demethylation agent, I think Schisandra worked better when I took them together)
-Curcumin (deacetylation agent - although acetylation is confusing, sometimes drugs are said to acetylate or deacetylate, but above it's acetylise. Needs to be high in curcuminoids and black pepper, not just powder.)
If I hadn't tried them independently, thinking one would be preferential over the other, and so spent some money in the recent past (also on other stuff, with eyes on different new stuff too), I think I would try this next. But synergistically I think they had an effect, although good Schisandra can also have one on its own.
Last edited by enriqueiglesias on Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
Things like curcumin and EGCG are AR inhibitors, so be carefull. I also don't think these are strong enough to produce a relevant demethylation effect for our condition.enriqueiglesias wrote:Other study on D2 antagonists ("antipsychotics") very rapidly having similar effects as well:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4203323/
They mention, for example, NMDA-antagonists can acutely counter-effect this, but probably do little afterwards.
I suggest someone to try a synergistic combination like:
-Schisandra (Schisandrin B is an RT inhibitor, apparently not entirely dissimilar to expensive anti-HIV drugs talked about here; it should be either high Schisandrin extract or smell fresh and sour, not musty, I noticed different effectiveness)
-EGCG/Green tea extract (known demethylation agent, I think Schisandra worked better when I took them together)
-Curcumin (deacetylation agent - although acetylation is confusing, sometimes drugs are said to acetylise or deacetylise, but above it's acetylise. Needs to be high in curcuminoids and black pepper, not just powder.)
If I hadn't tried them independently, thinking one would be preferential over the other, and so spent some money in the recent past (also on other stuff, with eyes on different new stuff too), I think I would try this next. But synergistically I think they had an effect, although good Schisandra can also have one on its own.
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Re: New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
I have heard EGCG is a AR inhibitor, but from plenty of own experience this is very temporary (and completely unrelated to permanent effects talked about here). Also, I always recommend taking high doses, for at least a week, and I finally had more longterm effects once, that's what I'm talking about. And I wouldn't talk about "don't think strong enough" without actual reference, that seems to be thrown around too lightly sometimes... I also specifically mention them for synergistic effect. And didn't you mention you were actually testing medication?
That aside, they speak of cAMP activation being necessary for the changes (they actually test with well-known Forskolin), so maybe it's also necessary for any reversal or "healing" changes.
(No-one will try anything anyway, that's the whole fun of it...)
More generally than that, I would actually look into bringing about epigenetic changes, completely independently of "reversing" effects, but simply by way of replicating similar effects in another direction.
That aside, they speak of cAMP activation being necessary for the changes (they actually test with well-known Forskolin), so maybe it's also necessary for any reversal or "healing" changes.
(No-one will try anything anyway, that's the whole fun of it...)
More generally than that, I would actually look into bringing about epigenetic changes, completely independently of "reversing" effects, but simply by way of replicating similar effects in another direction.
- AnhedonicApe
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Re: New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
Hey yes I am, but I am trying stronger agents, because i think the things u mentioned arent sufficient. Maybe u want to read this: https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cont ... 4.full.pdf Shows for instance EGCG doesnt really cause sufficient genomic demethylation. I don't know about this cAMP activation, have not read about it. I believe some on this forum have permanently worsened due to curcumin, it is an AR inhbitor as I said. And ofcourse, because u could handle the AR inhibiting effects, doesn't say a lot for other sufferers. Woman in India rub it on their arms to stop hair growth there btw. I am glad it worked for u though, what are the benefits u got?enriqueiglesias wrote:I have heard EGCG is a AR inhibitor, but from plenty of own experience this is very temporary (and completely unrelated to permanent effects talked about here). Also, I always recommend taking high doses, for at least a week, and I finally had more longterm effects once, that's what I'm talking about. And I wouldn't talk about "don't think strong enough" without actual reference, that seems to be thrown around too lightly sometimes... I also specifically mention them for synergistic effect. And didn't you mention you were actually testing medication?
That aside, they speak of cAMP activation being necessary for the changes (they actually test with well-known Forskolin), so maybe it's also necessary for any reversal or "healing" changes.
(No-one will try anything anyway, that's the whole fun of it...)
More generally than that, I would actually look into bringing about epigenetic changes, completely independently of "reversing" effects, but simply by way of replicating similar effects in another direction.
Re: New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
I recently tried Schisandra, it has a nice hypnotic effect, but my erection quality baseline dropped permanently after few days of usage. Schisandra is GABA A agonist and increasing glu/gaba ratio.enriqueiglesias wrote:Other study on D2 antagonists ("antipsychotics") very rapidly having similar effects as well:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4203323/
They mention, for example, NMDA-antagonists can acutely counter-effect this, but probably do little afterwards.
I suggest someone to try a synergistic combination like:
-Schisandra (Schisandrin B is an RT inhibitor, apparently not entirely dissimilar to expensive anti-HIV drugs talked about here; it should be either high Schisandrin extract or smell fresh and sour, not musty, I noticed different effectiveness)
- But synergistically I think they had an effect, although good Schisandra can also have one on its own.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29677536
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Re: New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
I tried Chinese Schisandra and turmeric, it didn't help me.
Re: New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
Could anyone summarize for me what the state of things is epigenetics-wise? It seems like people think methylation is involved on the cause of PSSD. Is the issue that we don’t have data on which genes are methylated in PSSD sufferers, and furthermore that even if we did, no tools exist to de-methylated them? In other words, is it the case that if everyone here took a DNA test (e.g., 23andme), then we could know what SSRIs (and/or Accutane and Propecia) did to our DNA, and then if we had CRISPR we could edit them back to normal?
Just trying to understand the basics as well as acquire a sense of what work needs to be done for a cure.
Just trying to understand the basics as well as acquire a sense of what work needs to be done for a cure.
Re: New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
Abnormal DNA methylation has been proposed to explain persistent symptoms of PFS, PSSD, and PAS since it is heritable across cell divisions. Abnormal DNA methylation has also been under investigation as the root cause of other persistent conditions apparently unrelated to the post-drug symptom set common to PFS, PSSD and PAS, such as tardive (late) dyskinesia, tardive akathisia, and tardive dystonia resulting from antidepressants and neuroleptic drugs.Could anyone summarize for me what the state of things is epigenetics-wise? It seems like people think methylation is involved on the cause of PSSD.
It is difficult to treat a condition before its root cause and pathology are understood and you are right that biotechnology offering targeted demethylation is still only on the distant horizon.Is the issue that we don’t have data on which genes are methylated in PSSD sufferers, and furthermore that even if we did, no tools exist to de-methylated them?
No. Typical consumer-grade genotyping and sequencing doesn't offer any insights on methylation status. Even if it did, affected tissue would need to be analyzed to find a target for epigentic modulation. It is doubtful that this could be gleaned from cell samples taken by cheek swab or spitting into a tube. The most we could infer from analysis of 23andMe data are candidate risk alleles (different versions of the same gene) that are more common among sufferers of one or all of these conditions than among the general population. With luck, it might point to genes involved in epigenetic mechanisms or differences in control regions of certain genes.This will even be difficult to find given the low number of samples we are currently working with.In other words, is it the case that if everyone here took a DNA test (e.g., 23andme), then we could know what SSRIs (and/or Accutane and Propecia) did to our DNA, and then if we had CRISPR we could edit them back to normal?
Re: New study reveals the epigenetic effects of Citalopram
Thank you for this explanation. So let’s say the issue is that these drugs imposed epigenetic modifications upon us. What do we need to do to reverse them? Is there any way to ascertain what the modifications were and remediate them in any kind of targeted fashion?
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