PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

This is for hypothesis and even educated speculation.
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Meso
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Re: PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

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Janie wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:51 pm I actually know someone diagnosed with neurotoxicity due to an ssri. Many doctors tell that psychiatric drugs are toxic. So are they all wrong? The QEEG doctor told me microscopic injuries can cause this level of brain function loss what is seen on my QEEG. In my viewpoint anything that cause this level of suffering, illness and function loss, being on cell, receptor or whatever level is an injury (again, to me). Would you share how you got symptonatic relief?
Yeah, any body can have a different definition of the scientific term itself, 'neurotoxicity'. For me, I define it as I was taught at my university, and from this point of view, SSRIs are not neurotoxic drugs even if they leave a microscopic 'signature' because even normal day-to-day circumstances can leave a permanent microscopic signature.
Janie wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:51 pmWould you share how you got symptonatic relief?
I believe that every person has to be prescribed a personalized treatment depending on their symptoms. No one size fits all. For me, I reversed my sexual dysfunction, anhedonia, and cognitive dysfunction but didn't manage to reverse blunted affect (loss of ability to feel some emotions).

Others have tried my regimen but they report mixed reactions to it, understandably so. I used to help others figure out what could work for them until recently. There are professionals that can help with educated trial-and-error (Rxsk's "eCONSUIT", Dr. Goldstein). I don't know if they managed to help others much yet.
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Naczoz
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Re: PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

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Did you have genital numbness?
Janie
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Re: PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

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Normal day to day activites won't leave you with severe brain injury with 30+ symptoms from one day to another. Unless you have an accidental encounter with a seriously toxic substance or drug of course. For me, MRI is not convincing at all, I heard it can't show part of the brain injuries. I think FMRI could show it and SPECT or QEEG could in fact in the few cases I know, including me. Scientists and doctors who I contacted support that psych drugs are neurotoxic. I personally think it is true in my case I had basically the same symptoms as people with TBI reports, but I also think pssd is probably a different mechanism what can happen simultaneously.
PsychoGenesis
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Re: PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

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i think if PSSD is indeed a catalyst to something like Alzheimer's then i can't not call it neurotoxic, for these are in and of itself toxic and the behavior of a late stage dementia patient is way worse than many neurotoxins damage, not counting it's sneaky subtlety



but i understand both point of views of Meso and Janie
So let's say that more research is the answer
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Meso
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Re: PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

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Janie wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:28 pm Normal day to day activites won't leave you with severe brain injury with 30+ symptoms from one day to another. Unless you have an accidental encounter with a seriously toxic substance or drug of course.
I understand your point of view, of course. I would like to point out that as an extreme of those micro-signatures taking place on potential day to day circumstances, if someone is genetically susceptible to PTSD for instance, those signature micro-changes end up in sufficient quantity to trigger a potentially life-long maladaptive neuroplastic disorder that could give that person many chronic symptoms.
Janie wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:28 pmFor me, MRI is not convincing at all, I heard it can't show part of the brain injuries.
As the article points out, what MRI can reliably show is gross brain injuries, not microscopic histopathological ones. For those, I agree that PET scans, SPECT and fMRI can reveal more information - or direct dissection of postmortem brains as an extreme. That being said, on a microscopic level it becomes a matter of semantics what would constitute brain injury and how it would differ from physiological neuroplastic changes.

For example, Alzheimer's disease is a form of brain injury, we can all agree on that given your definition. In Alzheimer's disease, microscopic changes precedes macroscopic ones. In fact, before neurodegenerative diseases show as gross anatomical changes on MRI, it could start as something as simple as progressive receptors downregulation and loss of receptor density. However, the very same could be said of normal physiological neuroplastic changes preceding adaptive changes of structural volume and size.
PsychoGenesis wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:10 am but i understand both point of views of Meso and Janie
So let's say that more research is the answer
Let's hope so.

Thanks for the discussion.
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sovietxrobot
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Re: PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

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I agree with everything Meso said. PSSD isn't brain injury in the sense of tissue damage, and its not a degenerative disease like AD. Its an altered homeostatic state. The hypo-activity in the frontal lobe that causes the debilitating cognitive symptoms is probably caused by some change in 5HT2A, which is responsible for release of dopamine in the frontal lobe. In PSSD, our receptors get "stuck" in some altered state that is quite different from the normal baseline.
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Re: PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

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Even if the homeostatic point was moved, there is nothing we can do to restore it to default pre-drugs settings. It seems like we have to adapt to its new homestasis...and its fucking difficult
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Re: PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

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Many substances in the body can become neurotoxic if enzymes aren’t not processing it at a normal rate.
PsychoGenesis
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Re: PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

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sovietxrobot wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:57 am. The hypo-activity in the frontal lobe that causes the debilitating cognitive symptoms is probably caused by some change in 5HT2A, which is responsible for release of dopamine in the frontal lobe. In PSSD, our receptors get "stuck" in some altered state that is quite different from the normal baseline.

you mean responsible for preventing dopamine release through gaba interneurons??

both agonists and antagonists downregulate 5HT2A
so you'd think people figured it out already
sovietxrobot
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Re: PSSD half a decade later: My brain MRI w/ contrast dye

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PsychoGenesis wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:47 pm
sovietxrobot wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:57 am. The hypo-activity in the frontal lobe that causes the debilitating cognitive symptoms is probably caused by some change in 5HT2A, which is responsible for release of dopamine in the frontal lobe. In PSSD, our receptors get "stuck" in some altered state that is quite different from the normal baseline.

you mean responsible for preventing dopamine release through gaba interneurons??

both agonists and antagonists downregulate 5HT2A
so you'd think people figured it out already
This is something I haven't been able to understand, I would happy for any clarification. In the literature, 5HT2A and 5HTC are described as having opposing phenotypes; stimulation of 5HT2A releases dopamine in the PFC, and stimulation of 5HT2C inhibits the release of dopamine into the NAc. The former is part of the antidepressant effect of SSRIs, and the latter is why sexual side effects develop. But, as you said, its the downregulation of 5HT2A that causes the beneficial effects, and also why SSRis take 4-6 weeks to work. What you said makes more sense to me, but I dont know how to reconcile that with the opposing phenotypes.
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