What if this isn't purely psychological, isn't pure hysteria converted into physical symptoms?

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guacamo
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Re: What if this is purely psychological, pure hysteria converted into physical symptoms?

Unread post by guacamo »

Conversion disorder is just another name for idiopatic disease, known as "we have 0 idea why it happens". You can say to every person that has health problems and does not find help in the current medicine that he has conversion disorder. It is just a filler for the lack of competency.
JakeLawe
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Re: What if this is purely psychological, pure hysteria converted into physical symptoms?

Unread post by JakeLawe »

guacamo wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:06 pm Functional neurological disorder discplaced conversion disorder in DSM-5, but they do not not share the same definition.
Your theory about energy not being destroyed can be posted in forum related to physics, altough if u have in mind such a visit i can provide you with short cut - law of conservation of energy can only be aplied locally.
Conversion disorder is just another term for idiopatic disease, known as " we have no idea why you feel that way".
If we reduce PSSD and are ignorant to neurobiological causes, we can just close this forum and move on, believing that unexplainable fenomena caused the energy of our depression to be manifested in our penises.
Regarding the disagreement between us about the genesis of the experience - i stand by philosophical materialism, you i guess some sort of transcententalism, maybe without religious parts. There are fundamental differences between them, that's why we will never come to mutual conclusion.
Ok I've got no theories, only hypothesis.

Conversion has been studied, by Freud and many more. Physical symptoms as manifestation of psychic energy is a thing. rashes, blushing, etc to more complex symptoms. there's a plethora of texts about it. I wouldn't say is merely a "no idea what's going on" diagnosis. At least it'd be a diagnosis.. hard to treat from what I've read though.. usually involves CBT as best method.

I am NOT closed to the hypothesis that this could be a pure physical/"mechanical" situation of the body. but I am NOT closed to the hypothesis that it may have it's genesis on the depression/anxiety itself.. linked to the ingestion of the SSRI whatever those things do or not which seems to me nobody knows. I am also NOT closed to this phenomenon ppossibly being a combination of the two either.

Ultimately, we're joining dots. My joining leans towards: most stuff that has helped people has either anti depressive effects or anxiolitic, or both. And people experiencing this phenomenon seems to have been depressed and/or anxious before hand. Seems that as soon as the depression and/or anxiety went away, the symptoms started. Being because was a ssri or the patient's acne got solved or the patient's hair grew.

As for the "mechanism" of how the mind would transfer this energy, it shall remain a mystery, if one was to subscribe to this hypothesis, of course.

If one subscribes to this, I would question the mind's mechanism of defense of transferring the energy, as it seems the result can cause more distress!

I don't agree with materialism indeed. it's obsolete. We don't need to come to a mutual conclusion. You can say the conversion disorder hypothesis sounds like bullshit to you and that's totally fine. It may as well be. I'd still suggest to patients to forget about it as possible and have as good time as possible, with or without meds and as long as nobody gets hurt.
GIXXER
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Re: What if this isn't purely psychological, isn't pure hysteria converted into physical symptoms?

Unread post by GIXXER »

Are you familiar with occam's razor??? I'm positive it applies with PSSD. That these drugs did this to us. Its that simple. No need to complicated it with a bunch of b.s. theories and hypotheses.
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Re: What if this isn't purely psychological, isn't pure hysteria converted into physical symptoms?

Unread post by JakeLawe »

GIXXER wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:57 pm Are you familiar with occam's razor??? I'm positive it applies with PSSD. That these drugs did this to us. Its that simple. No need to complicated it with a bunch of b.s. theories and hypotheses.
It's funny you mention Occam's razor, because the simplest explanation to me is that this phenomenon is a conversion disorder of sorts or precisely that. No need to get complicated with a bunch of hypothesis about Dog knows what receptor and gamma and etc etc etc. Drives one crazy, if you ask me.

Hey, I am not saying the ingestion of the pills are not linked to it.. they definitely are, in my experience and for that there should be a proper warning in the bottle. I'd agree seems the ingestion played the "triggering" role.
GIXXER
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Re: What if this isn't purely psychological, isn't pure hysteria converted into physical symptoms?

Unread post by GIXXER »

A conversion disorder of sorts seems pretty complicated if you ask me. A bunch of psycho babble and excuses to deflect from the pills. Why didnt this so called "conversion disorder" exist pre drugging?
JakeLawe
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Re: What if this isn't purely psychological, isn't pure hysteria converted into physical symptoms?

Unread post by JakeLawe »

GIXXER wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:43 pm A conversion disorder of sorts seems pretty complicated if you ask me. A bunch of psycho babble and excuses to deflect from the pills. Why didnt this so called "conversion disorder" exist pre drugging?
Taking aside that some experience these kind of phenomenon or this, specifically without taking SSRIs:

It'd be because there hadn't been an ingestion of something labeled as "antidepressant". It'd be because there wasn't a perfect moment for the opportunistic and in despair mind to transfer before!

We're heavily conditioned to think the SSRI will make a difference because of the chemical imbalance hypothesis of depression, we expect it to make a difference, to do something, we're excited about it, anxious about it.. here's finally the solution to one's depression! we'll no longer be depressed about being depressed because this is an ANTI-depressant or so we've been told.. and we've read the stories of people and how they suddenly "feel like themselves" etc, so we strongly expect the pill to do something, some of us, anyway.. and if it does, when it does.. is it the pill or one's mind?

I'm offering an alternate hypothesis that's all, it's actually not mine, it's been around for some time, I'm just "adding" and "subtracting" a bit to it. I sometimes wonder if our symptom ain't a way to have an excuse to be depressed.. before it the depression was unexplainable no? now one can say why one is depressed when one is! and when the symptom finally goes away.. why would one still be depressed? oh, but one can still be.. when one's ungrateful and prideful.

As I said I've no idea. Could be entirely something else.
If anyone ever figures it out 100%. Let me know!
Janie
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Re: What if this isn't purely psychological, isn't pure hysteria converted into physical symptoms?

Unread post by Janie »

OK, this thread if full of bullshit. I hope it will be deleted as it leads exactly nowhere.

Even lab rats got PSSD except that they can't complain about it. In the same way, off label usage of SSRIs has lead to PSSD. Therefore this is drug effect and not "depression". End of story.

That assumption about people's previous expectations about the drug's effect is a complete generalization and nonsense again. People are not warned about eg. genital anesthesia so it can't be their expectation to experience it, but it still happens.

There isn't any evidence also that so called "conversion disorder" even exists, it means only they don't know the cause of symptoms therefore they put this label on these cases without any basis of evidence. Functional neurological disorder would be a better and more ethical term for that.
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guacamo
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Re: What if this is purely psychological, pure hysteria converted into physical symptoms?

Unread post by guacamo »

JakeLawe wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:33 pm
guacamo wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:06 pm Functional neurological disorder discplaced conversion disorder in DSM-5, but they do not not share the same definition.
Your theory about energy not being destroyed can be posted in forum related to physics, altough if u have in mind such a visit i can provide you with short cut - law of conservation of energy can only be aplied locally.
Conversion disorder is just another term for idiopatic disease, known as " we have no idea why you feel that way".
If we reduce PSSD and are ignorant to neurobiological causes, we can just close this forum and move on, believing that unexplainable fenomena caused the energy of our depression to be manifested in our penises.
Regarding the disagreement between us about the genesis of the experience - i stand by philosophical materialism, you i guess some sort of transcententalism, maybe without religious parts. There are fundamental differences between them, that's why we will never come to mutual conclusion.
Ok I've got no theories, only hypothesis.

Conversion has been studied, by Freud and many more. Physical symptoms as manifestation of psychic energy is a thing. rashes, blushing, etc to more complex symptoms. there's a plethora of texts about it. I wouldn't say is merely a "no idea what's going on" diagnosis. At least it'd be a diagnosis.. hard to treat from what I've read though.. usually involves CBT as best method.

I am NOT closed to the hypothesis that this could be a pure physical/"mechanical" situation of the body. but I am NOT closed to the hypothesis that it may have it's genesis on the depression/anxiety itself.. linked to the ingestion of the SSRI whatever those things do or not which seems to me nobody knows. I am also NOT closed to this phenomenon ppossibly being a combination of the two either.

Ultimately, we're joining dots. My joining leans towards: most stuff that has helped people has either anti depressive effects or anxiolitic, or both. And people experiencing this phenomenon seems to have been depressed and/or anxious before hand. Seems that as soon as the depression and/or anxiety went away, the symptoms started. Being because was a ssri or the patient's acne got solved or the patient's hair grew.

As for the "mechanism" of how the mind would transfer this energy, it shall remain a mystery, if one was to subscribe to this hypothesis, of course.

If one subscribes to this, I would question the mind's mechanism of defense of transferring the energy, as it seems the result can cause more distress!

I don't agree with materialism indeed. it's obsolete. We don't need to come to a mutual conclusion. You can say the conversion disorder hypothesis sounds like bullshit to you and that's totally fine. It may as well be. I'd still suggest to patients to forget about it as possible and have as good time as possible, with or without meds and as long as nobody gets hurt.
Freud is today considered as a fraud, psychodynamic therapy based on his work has success rate of a placebo. As i said if we reduce PSSD to some "mysterious forces", "psychic energy" "transferring energy", then we can close the door and never look back, because it will lead us nowhere. We can only rely on science based medicine, scientific research.
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