New interesting theory on PSSD/PFS/PAS

[croboy17]

Nope. Never have I took finasteride/accutane/ssri. I am with with 0 libido, numb genitals, stress incontinence, bad body odor. I have met 2 other guys who also have this syndrome who also never took any of these drugs.

Here is another guy I found:

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/hypogonad ... abs/208102

[Northern_Star]

Nope. Never have I took finasteride/accutane/ssri. I am with with 0 libido, numb genitals, stress incontinence, bad body odor. I have met 2 other guys who also have this syndrome who also never took any of these drugs.

Here is another guy I found:

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/hypogonad ... abs/208102

You took large amounts of hydrocortisone, right? Hydrocortisone has antiandrogenic properties, just like finasteride, isotretinoin (accutane) and ssri. At Propeciahelp, we strongly believe that what we call "PFS" and people here call "PSSD" is one and the same condition that results from androgen depriviation: https://www.propeciahelp.com/post-andro ... -abstract/

I think it is likely that you suffer the same condition brought upon by androgen deprivation via hydrocortisone. I had persistent side effects from Finasteride for many years. I had a second crash two years ago, when I treated a rash with hydrocortisone. It all makes sense.

[BABA YAGA]

Hello,

New user here , hopefully I am welcome. Im sure ALL of you will find my story interesting. I have never in my life used finasteride/accutane/ssri. When I was about 10/11 years old I visited my doctor for a rash I had on my buttocks, thighs, and biceps. The doctor diagnosed it as a fungal rash (looks like ringworm) and prescribed me hydrocortisone cream (immuno-supressive) Anyways, the cream never helped that much , but it did seem to reduce the rash for a bit before it would flare up again. I would pick up more cream every other year or so. Well eventually I got to the age where the rash started to have a negative impact on my self-image and would say I used it maybe too much.

March 2016- After eating 5 eggs for breakfast every morning for the last 2-3 years. Something changed one morning. I developed hives all over my body. My skin went pale. This had never happened to me in my life ever. It took about 3 hours for the hives to settle down. I immediately attributed this to the eggs, but thought maybe it was just a bad "pack of eggs" I ate. Anyways once the rash settled I decided to try another pack of eggs. I broke out in hives again! I immediately called my mother and told her that it looks like I developed some new egg allergy or something. My brother even gave me shit for trying it again saying that I can die from severe allergic reaction. The next day my soccer/football team went on preseason training 4-5 hours away in another city. At the team hotel I decided to try eggs again. Once again I broke out into hives and my coach was worried for me as well so I missed practice. To be clear I had no symptoms beside the hives at this point.

April 2016: I returned to Canada my birth country. I avoided eggs all this time. I started my first job working on a construction site. All was fine.

May/June 2016: A few months into my job something had happened. I do not know what happened during this time , as I could not even put the pieces together. Basically I was just working 10 hours a day, drinking black coffee, and eating salads. I would come home and run for 1 hour at the track then play soccer with my friend for 2 hours and go to sleep for the next work day. This time was all a blur. I noticed that for the first time in the last 10 years the fungal rash on my thighs/buttocks/biceps had COMPLETELY dissapeared!!! This was a shock to me.

July/August 2016: I sat on the toilet one morning and felt really strange. I noticed that I had not had "morning wood" I sat on the toilet for a little bit longer and said to myself. "Hold on a minute, I havent had morning wood in the last few months" I panicked and tried to get hard and it was like something I can not explain. I could not get an erection. The genitals were numb like rubber. My scrotum was tight and close to my body.

September 2016: I started to panic and thought the diet/overtraining fucked up my testosterone levels. I went to my doctor and she said all was normal and that it was probably all in my head. I did more research and came across cauda equina syndrome and for 1 month I believed I had this. During this time I was still going to the gym but this is when new symptoms set in. Dry eyes, horrible arm pit odor, strange smelling farts, leaking urine/stress incontinence. SEVERE restless legs syndrome.

2016-2018: I have visited multiple doctors with no help. Eventually I decided to read more into the internet and came across Post FInasteride/PSSD,PAS. These guys were basically my twin. I even contacted a doctor for help (John Crisler) He told me it sounds like PFS and I should get my DHT levels checked. Indeed they were low 176 (350-850) I was scared, and eventually quit my job because I felt like I had nothing left. I tried Creatine to raise dht, but it did not work.

2019: I stumbled upon a doctor on youtube (Joel Rosen) who was talking about something called the "dutch test' he was also talking about DHT. So I found this interesting. I decided to contact him via instagram. I begged him for help and he agreed to look at my hormones. He saw the low dht , elevated dhea-s etc. He did not seem to worried about this. Immediately he asked for my regular blood test results. His response?

"You have an immune system issue. No amount of DHT in the world will fix you. You have to address the immune system first. I suspect this is all driven by a reactivated VIRAL INFECTION"

I was soo angry at his response. How can he not be concerned with my low dht!? I ignored him and went on another year of searching for answers. All this until I found on another forum where a user states "finasteride causes immune system dysfunction and causes dormant infections to reactivate. BOOM! This shit hit me and I immediately rememebered what the good doctor from instagram said to me.

I will leave it at this. My blood results show Elevated Lymphocytes, decreased neutrophils. My IgE is 790.9 (0-100) I also have elevated calprotectin 126 (0-100) Calprotectin = gut inflammation. Stool test showed Blastocystis hominis. DHT 176 (350-850) despite never taking dht inhibitor.

https://www.cdc.gov/fungal/diseases/rin ... roids.html
"Steroid creams also can make ringworm worse because they weaken the skin’s defenses. In rare cases, steroid creams allow the fungus that causes ringworm to invade deeper into the skin and cause a more serious condition."

My theory is that we basically have skewed Th1/Th2 balance. I have found people cured from treating Fungal infections, Candida, Chlamydia trachomatis, and viral infections? What do these all have in common? These are all intracellular pathogens. Th1 is needed to address these intracellular pathogens. Th1 in our case is supressed due to over active Th2.

We also have the guy cured from treating e. histolytica (parasite)
"In their Parasite Immunology article on worms and viral infections, Dr. Kamal et al. explain why some parasitic worms aggravate the immune response.[13] Because parasitic worms often induce Th2 cells and lead to suppressed Th1 cells, problems arise when Th1 cells are needed.[13] Such cases occur with viral diseases.[13]"

Your story is very interesting mate. Do you remember using any antifungal shampoo?
Please join my Discord server. You seem to have knowledge & interest in inflammation. We'll need to talk for sure.

[croboy17]

no hydrocoritsone is an IMMUNOSUPRRESANT! this is the issue I believe. It is a corticosteroid and I found research saying it can make fungal rashes worse as it weakens skin barrier and allows the fungus to invade deeper into the skin.

"Side effects may include mood changes, increased risk of infection, and swelling.[1] With long-term use common side effects include osteoporosis, upset stomach, physical weakness, easy bruising, and yeast infections.[1] While used, it is unclear if it is safe during pregnancy.[4] Hydrocortisone is a glucocorticoid and works as an anti-inflammatory and by immune suppression.[1]"


"After working with many PFS case, the drug was often a catalyst for immune system dysfunction that causes a snow ball effect As a result this causes dormant infections of Strep, lyme, co-infections, mold, EBV coxsackie, parvo, HSV 1,2 HVV6, etc to be come active. Then a doctor tell you when your IGG is past infections, but fails to see the reality its an active infections
Need to look at the total history and labs to get the clinical picture. Too many people are looking at one factor when there are often multiple.
This is why they are not getting better and making matters worse from listen to the nonsense and misinformation they read on line"

https://anabolicminds.com/community/thr ... ed.216977/

[croboy17]

https://forum.propeciahelp.com/t/treatm ... matis/2378

"But I finally looked at the problem from another point of view…
5 alfa reductase inhibitors are STEROIDS and all of them cause huge immunosupression and destroy immune system so human organizm become susceptible to diseases!
AFTER ANTIBIOTIC TREATMENT for CHLAMYDIA TRACHOMATIS I am today a different man…

Problem: Irreversible side effects after taking 5 alfa reductase inhibitors (finasteride , dutasteride). SE don’t disappear even after hormonal treatment.
Hormone levels are perfect and still no improvment , even after a long time… no recovery and worse condition.

==>CONSLUSION: Invasion of some kind of patogen which sucks every vital substances from us.
In my case I had discovered after dozens of blood analysis, extremely high concentration of anti CHLAMYDIA TRACHOMATIS anti bodies in G class.

!!! ALL THOSE SYMPTOMS ARE CAUSED BY INTRACELULAR BACTERIAL INFECTION !!!

Wake up people!"

He is correct , however it is not limited to bacteria. Viruses, fungus , yeast, mold can all be intracellular as well.

"===>>> IF YOU CAN’T FIND SOLUTION BY YOURSEFL DON’T TELL THAT EVERYBODY ELSE ARE IDIOTS! I HAVE ALMOST FULLY RECOVERED ON ANTIBIOTICS ALL SYMPTOMS INLUDING LACK OF LIBIDO ARE GONE !!! -----<<<<<<<<<<<<

IF YOU DON’t KNOW CORELATIONS BEETWEN CHLAMYDIOSIS AND FINASTERIDE IMMUNOSUPRESION IT MEANS YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT MICROBIOLOGY AND PATOPHYSIOLOGY !!! SO STFU! LEARN AND READ MORE MEDICAL NEWS MAN!!!

PEOPLE WAKE UP AND DON’t LISTEN DO THIS NAZIST ! MEW THIS IS NOT YOUR PRIVATE FORUM AND I SWEAR IF YOU BAN ME AGAIN I WILL WRITE OPEN LETTER TO YOUR SUPERVISORS AND THEY WILL BRING YOU DOWN TO CHINATOWN DUDE !!!

!!!======= IRREVERSIBLE FINASTERIDE SIDE EFECTS ARE CAUSED BY INTRACELLULAR BACTERIAL INFECTION AND EVERYBODY CAN CHECK THIS VERY SIMPLE BY DOING BLOOD TESTS AND MICROBIOLOGY TEST INCLUDING PCR=============!!!

If you don’t like this only true theory so die and suffer to the rest of your life while I will enjoy my fully restored health and vitality!!!"

[croboy17]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0v54k2wCQk&t=381s

"EBV Past infections, are they a problem"

[croboy17]

https://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=2276109

This guy had pfs, and after 11 years dealt with E. Histolytica (parasite) and was cured! Well folks take a look at this:

"In their Parasite Immunology article on worms and viral infections, Dr. Kamal et al. explain why some parasitic worms aggravate the immune response.[13] Because parasitic worms often induce Th2 cells and lead to suppressed Th1 cells, problems arise when Th1 cells are needed.[13] Such cases occur with viral diseases.[13] Several examples of viral infections worsened by parasitic worms are described below."

My guess is that he always had the parasite, it didnt cause him much problems until Finasteride broke the camels back, caused dormant infections to activate and then he got fucked. The parasite was causing Th2 dominance, and therfore Th1 was completely suppressed and he couldnt deal with the viruses and there you have it. Post Finasteride Syndrome. Or in my case, post exercise, undereating, and hydrocortisone syndrome.

[Northern_Star]

no hydrocoritsone is an IMMUNOSUPRRESANT! this is the issue I believe.

I know that hydrocortisone is also a immunosuppressant. That is why I used it to treat an allergic rash. But it also has antiandrogenic properties. These things are not mutually exclusive. Many substances have various properties. Hydrocortisone is used in prostate cancer treatment, where androgen deprivation is a common therapy.

We know the following from PFS:

- Finasteride is clearly an antiANDROGEN. It is very effective atlowering DHT levels. That's why it is somewhat effective in hairloss.
- People with PFS show symptoms in tissue that are subject to ANDROGENIC signaling.
- In a study, symptom severity of PFS patients correlated with ANDROGEN Receptor Gene (CAG)n and (GGN)n length polymorphisms
- Studies have shown ANDROGEN receptor overexpression in penile tissue of PFS patients as well as in the brain of rats post-treatment with Finasteride.

You see the common theme? And this is all from peer-reviewed studies.

Now, we see people with the same persistent side effects who took SSRIs or Isotretinoin (PAS). And guess what, both substance classes also have antiandrogenic properties. And here you are, taking hydrocortisone, a substance with antiandrogenic properties and you have the same symptoms. There is a pretty clear and obvious pattern here.

[croboy17]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamade ... act/548019

Do you know what neutropenia is? @northern_star

I really wish people would stop with the androgens/hormones already. IT HAS GOTTEN YOU NOWHERE. Look elsewhere. We have people cured from treating all sorts of infections (anti-candida diets, fasting, chlaymdia trachomatis, mycoplasma, fungus, mold, e.histolytica, sibo..)

[croboy17]

"I have a close buddy who swears he suffers from “PFS”. Admittedly, he does have all of the exact same issues as us, but his issues came about directly during/after having pharyngitis for a week."

Exactly. The precipitant matters not in Chronic Fatigue syndrome. Whether it is pharyngitis/ CMV/ EBV/ death of a spouse/taking finasteride or accutane/a famine or otherwise.

When are people going to extract themselves from the tedious insular thought processes induced by this narrow minded website, and realise the bigger picture?

Why, I suppose this close buddy has 5AR2 antibodies? Maybe even pharyngitis induced AR dysregulation?

Please.

JN